3 Questions with James Payne, AHI, (AMT), CPT, (NHA)

James Payne, AHI, (AMT), CPT, (NHA), attended Stony Brook University intent on studying marine biology, with the plan to become a researcher studying the deep ocean. But near the end of his last semester, he started questioning whether he wanted to pursue his doctorate. Rather than move forward immediately on that path, his advisor suggested he work as a technician for a few years, so Mr. Payne went home to Rochester, New York, and became a research technician at the University of Rochester in Dr. Howard Federoff’s laboratory.  

The research—looking for biomarkers in the blood of Alzheimer’s patients—was interesting, and when Dr. Federoff left to become the head of Georgetown Medical Center, Mr. Payne was at a crossroads. He was unsure of his next steps but knew that pursuing a PhD in marine biology was not the right path.  

He enrolled in the University of Rochester’s Warner School of Education and eventually found a full-time position that involved creating a medical laboratory program for high school students that included phlebotomy training. At the start, Mr. Payne admits he knew very little about the industry, but over the past 15 years he has fallen in love with laboratory medicine and has become a vocal advocate at the local, state, and national levels.  

Here, Mr. Payne shares his thoughts about his career, the work he does with high school students, and more in three questions (and a bonus!)  

What aspects of laboratory medicine do you find most intriguing and fulfilling? How do these align with your personal and professional interests?  

The aspects of laboratory medicine that I find most intriguing and fulfilling are being a detective—not for a criminal, but for a pathogen or disease. I love helping people understand that it is not a nurse who usually draws blood, but a phlebotomist. The collected sample doesn't just go to the lab and magically produce a result that the doctors read off to you; those doctors are definitely not conducting tests in the lab. I love explaining all of the wonderful careers that help doctors not to guess what is going on but to get an actual result indicating why patients are not feeling well and to guide the treatment plan. These align with both my personal and professional interests because I love opening the minds of young people and adults to how things actually work. A person who wants to help others and enjoys science doesn't have to focus solely on nursing or MD careers; they can also explore vital medical laboratory careers that, in my area, are starting to pay well (my graduates often earn more than I do!).  

As a high school medical laboratory assistant and phlebotomy teacher, my goal is to help young people look past the curtain obscuring the lab and its amazing careers. I want them to effectively explore any of these medical laboratory careers that they might be interested in, not only through skills training in our lab but also through college-level content knowledge to understand what they are doing and effective external experiences. My students do a co-op where they draw blood from real patients for actual medical samples during their junior year in high school. They also train as medical laboratory assistants in a local medical laboratory. Additionally, my students have opportunities to shadow various medical laboratory careers for up to eight hours. Seeing the growth in confidence among my students is why I do what I do. With the connections that I have built over the years, I can provide them with opportunities in college and work that they would not otherwise have access to. 

There are challenges that come along with the program, the most significant of which is the lack of awareness that it even exists as a career option. My high school medical laboratory career and technical education program has expanded its ability to engage students in learning about medical laboratory careers. My students not only have the opportunity to learn college-level content related to medical laboratory concepts but also gain skills that will allow them to explore which areas of the laboratory interest them, giving them a significant advantage for college. Our students also serve as ambassadors in their community due to the skills they have acquired and the co-op opportunities they have had, drawing blood from real patients for actual medical samples and working on the preanalytical side of the lab. It would be beneficial if more communities across the country created their own high school programs like mine, but it is not the only solution. Labs need to reach out to every school in their local or regional area and provide opportunities for guest speakers, field trips, and especially shadowing for students who are interested. Labs that invest in modifying policies and/or creating legal agreements with schools to facilitate these opportunities, like UR Medicine and Rochester Regional Health have done for my program, will enhance engagement. 

As part of ASCP's Workforce Steering Committee as the Improving Visibility To High School Students subcommittee chairperson, what goals has your subcommittee set to improve awareness of laboratory medicine among high school students, and how do you measure success?  

As part of ASCP's Workforce Steering Committee, my subcommittee has achieved several successes in the last three years, including developing flyers that describe careers in the medical laboratory and providing a roadmap for how individuals can progress. Additionally, each career has a detailed flyer describing it (these can all be found on whatsmynext.org). We have established connections with several educational professional organizations that have led to a national conference expo booth promoting medical laboratory careers, run by ASCP staff and volunteers. These organizations have included the American School Counselors Association (high school counselors), the National Academic Advising Association (college counselors), and the National Consortium of Health Science Educators. Attendees loved learning about laboratory medicine careers and appreciated the flyers produced by our subcommittee, as they made it easier to explain our careers. We plan on sending representatives to the conferences of the National Science Teacher Association (high school and college science teachers) and the Health Occupations Student Association (high school and college health science students and educators). We have collaborated with both the Patients Champions and Career Ambassadors to incorporate some of the content produced by our subcommittee into their materials to promote laboratory medicine careers broadly.  

If you could implement one major initiative to transform how laboratory medicine is introduced to young people, what would it be?  

One major initiative to transform how laboratory medicine is introduced to young people is what my ASCP Workforce Steering Committee subcommittee is currently working on. We are helping labs invest in their own communities by contacting local and regional high schools (and possibly middle schools) to arrange for lab staff to visit for guest speaker presentations. The guest speaker could utilize ASCP Career Ambassador materials along with the ASCP Lab Drawer, which can provide hands-on activities to better represent the lab.  

Labs could also offer options for one-hour, three-hour, or full-day field trips to these schools, allowing more students to see what it is like to work in a laboratory. I know this experience has been life-changing for my students who have attended. Lastly, any students interested in specific careers would be offered a shadowing opportunity lasting between two hours and up to eight hours with a laboratory professional. This will ensure they truly understand what the career entails and whether they enjoy the work. If I had my way, I would like to see labs designate someone to spend a certain amount of time every week contacting schools to schedule guest speaker presentations, conducting those presentations, helping to set up field trips, and designing how the shadowing experiences would work. Additionally, if the labs were willing, I would have the laboratory professional connect with local representatives to build more advocates in the community. If every lab in the country undertook this outreach with all the schools in their area, we would have tens of thousands more students aware of medical laboratory careers and significantly more choosing to pursue them. 

How do you envision the future of laboratory medicine education evolving, and what steps are necessary to ensure its growth and visibility?  

When I consider the evolution of laboratory medicine education, particularly regarding its growth and visibility, I think about the movement I have been starting by creating more high school medical laboratory programs like mine. I am assisting several schools in New York State and Vermont in establishing their own high school programs. The advantage of these programs is that they provide students with employable skills, essential content knowledge that they would learn in their initial med lab courses, and practical experience in an outpatient center or medical laboratory. Students who complete a program like mine receive their phlebotomy and medical laboratory assistant certifications and can be immediately employed in those roles. Many of my students go on to college for medical laboratory programs, and most of my college-bound students work as phlebotomists or lab assistants while attending school. If we could establish programs like mine in multiple locations across every state, we would be addressing the workforce shortage from entry-level positions up to doctorate roles. Students need effective career exploration, and programs like mine help them determine whether a specific career is something they want to pursue and are capable of pursuing.